Debating the DePIN Flywheel: Token Incentives, Business Models, and Mainstream Adoption | Kyle Samani & Dmitriy Berenzon

In today's episode Jason is joined by Kyle Samani of Multicoin Capital and Dmitriy Berenzon of Archetype for an in-depth debate on the emerging decentralized physical infrastructure industry. They analyze the complex economic flywheel effects that drive growth, including how token incentives align infrastructure providers and fuel liquidity and value. The discussion covers considerations around hardware needs, revenue models, and mainstream adoption challenges. They also assess the differences between B2B and B2C models, approaches to token issuance, and evaluating timing for mainstream adoption. We hope you enjoy!

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(01:24) What is DePIN?

(09:33) Barriers to DePIN

(21:40) DePIN Flywheel

(24:22) B2C vs B2B DePIN Designs

(33:41) Arbitrum Ad

(34:28) Harpie Ad

(35:43) CapEx & OpEx Costs

(45:00) Filecoin Thesis

(49:28) Best Token Issuance Models for DePIN

(55:56) Open Sourcing Hardware

(57:48) Active vs Passive DePIN

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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

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