On today’s episode of “Empire,” Joe Lallouz, head of Coinbase Cloud, joins Jason and Santiago to discuss how Coinbase Cloud is building the AWS of crypto.

Coinbase Cloud is building blockchain infrastructure and APIs that abstract the complexities of staking, data access, deployment and more. Joe explains the challenges of building in crypto, how Coinbase Cloud is taking on this challenge, and why developer tooling is critical for rapid innovation.

Joe Lallouz, Jason and Santiago then discuss the importance of crypto’s low switching costs, proof-of-stake systems, Lido’s staking dominance, and Coinbase’s approach to MEV. Blockchain infrastructure isn’t the hot topic on crypto Twitter, but it’s the base layer of the entire ecosystem and will soon be a primary talking point. Don’t miss this fantastic conversation to stay ahead of the blockchain infrastructure narrative!

Plus, hear more on:

  • Crypto’s bundling and unbundling
  • Developer SDKs
  • Staking derivatives
  • And so much more!

Check out what they had to say in the video below.👇

About the show

“Empire” is a twice-a-week show where we share the real crypto stories that aren’t heard elsewhere. On Mondays, Jason and Santiago Santos interview crypto industry movers and shakers to talk about their struggles, bold moves and tough decisions. Finish off the week with Friday’s weekly roundup episode that covers the top news and narratives of the week.

For any NPR or Guy Raz fans out there, you can think of “Empire” as a “How I Built This” for the bitcoin and crypto industry.

Subscribe to “Empire” today on Apple or Spotify. Watch episodes on YouTube.


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  • Podcast Producer
    Garrett Harper is the producer for the Empire podcast. Garrett worked in private equity and product management before jumping into crypto full-time in 2021. His favorite thing about crypto? It conflates art, gaming, finance, software, and psychology into one hyper-growth industry.